NBME 24 Renal tubular acidosis (NBME Answers)

NBME 24 Answers ↦

nbme24/Block 4/Question#3 (56.4 difficulty score)
A 23-year-old woman is brought to the ...
Renal tubular acidosis🔍
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+1
submitted by brethren_md(90),

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eRiruqse nkiwogn ohw to eulacaltc na innoa gap - kool it p.u In tsih sce,a it is a lamorn anoin apg lbitcemao iaodcsi.s nowK eht neounmscim EUDPILMS dna AHRSSAD. lanRe ublrTau dsaisioc is het oynl snwear hieocc ttha si an epleamx fo a malnor anino lemabcoit oscsi.iad

mousie Anion Gap: Na - (Cl + HCO3) = normally around 10-12 +3

seagull good to know. I keep looking up the urine values but all it said was "varies", then I threw my computer and yelled "does that vary Mother F****ers. I do feel better now. +67

_yeetmasterflex glad I wasn't the only one who got very pissed off at the urine values +4

fulminant_life Usually the first thing I look at is whether or not the Cl- is high. Generally if the Cl- is high its going to be a normal gap +7

henoch schonlein i think they gave you the urine values bc you can calculate the URINE anion gap which is (Na + K - Cl). In this case the Urine Anion Gap is positive (5). Boards and Beyond mentions that a positive UAG is due to Renal Tubular Acidosis Type 1 (inability of alpha intercalated cells to secrete hydrogen ions). just another approach to answer this q +19

270onstep1 Actually diarrhea is the "D" in "HARDASS"(reason why I was stuck between Chron's and RTA). Ended up getting it right with RTA.. +1

talha_s So the reason this is not Crohn's disease is actually what BnB explains in Renal Tubular acidosis video. Anytime there is a Metabolic Acidosis with intact kidney secretion of H+, the URINARY Anion gap (Na+K-Cl) is NEGATIVE. This is because the excess NH4 that is secreted into urine is combined with Cl-. Therefore, in Crohn's disease and Type 2 Renal Tubular Acidosis, the urinary anion gap is NEGATIVE. In this question, the urinary anion gap is POSITIVE so this would be an example of Type 1 RTA because the kidney can not excrete H+. I got it right by chance, definitely did not understand it in this much detail when I was answering it lol +8

+1
submitted by yobo13(2),

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nCa oneeosm lpxneai hyw it a'ctn eb rChs'no ensic htta wduol aslo uaesc a non ?GMAA

drpatinoire If she has Crohn, she has already lost a lot of K, HCO3-, then the compensatory system wouldn't let her keep losing electrolytes in her urine. +1

+0
submitted by abhishek021196(61),

Urine anion gap = Urine Na + K − Cl

In a metabolic acidosis without a serum anion gap:

A positive urine anion gap suggests a low urinary NH4+ (e.g. renal tubular acidosis).

A negative urine anion gap suggests a high urinary NH4+ (e.g. diarrhea).

+0
submitted by medguru2295(41),

You didn't really need to calculate Anion gap. The bicarb was EXCEPTIONALLY low. That is generally RTA. Additionally, the Cl was very high in the setting of other normal electrolytes. Additionally,. it was a s low onset (over 2 weeks) knocking out many other choices (Salicylate, Lactic Acidosis, DKA, and Alcoholic Ketoacidosis).

+0
submitted by cocoxaurus(56),

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BUT why is het ursme uoitampss aom?nrl

I asw ebla to nwaorr ti ownd to ART, bseucea neno of hte toehr wsrnae seochci edma chmu es,nes btu eth msiaspotu had em nosdce gensisgu mf.sley aCn onoseem liapnex ahtt bal gndfi?ni Tan!hsk

subclaviansteele My take is that hes not super acidotic and the K is at the low end. +

nwinkelmann see the comment by @zbird, which explains that the urine anion gap is important (which I took to interpret as more important than the serum K+ level, lol, because the normal K threw me off too). +

+0
submitted by zbird(2),

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hsiT aniettp sha DtyTsiepa-l I RAT wichh si apidlenex yb Nlrmoa rSmeu nAoni pag ()8 oiaeltMcb adoissic whti hre tpoeviis irnuyra nioan pa.()g5+

krewfoo99 Why would the urine Potassium be so high if it is type 1 ? Shouldnt it be type 2? +

drpatinoire @krewfoo99 I think it's RTA2 (Fanconi syndrome), he is losing all kinds of Na, K, Cl which should be reabsorbed in PCT. +

misterdoctor69 @Drpatinoire: it can't be RTA2 because the urine anion gap (UAG) is positive (+), which implies that the patient is unable to secrete H+ (via NH4+, which couples w/ Cl-). RTA2 on the other hand has a negative (-) UAG because RTA2 affects only the proximal tubule's ability to reabsorb bicarbonate (i.e. H+ secretion via NH4+ in the distal convoluted tubule is unaffected). +

-1
submitted by sherry(29),

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riaraDhe in HSSDAAR anc aled to tmacilbeo ioscsida sa lwel. On ndoecs thhgout I deidced ot akte ronhc eseasdi cuz I erdgfui the clliainc iruecpt si oerm ienmtietrttn ithw itmoupssa seasuib.ctndr I usegs I jsut okhrnteiv edu ot teh kcal fo trhoe lyiapshc a.tebanislriom

daddyyikes other than the patient not haveing any sxs of crohn's i dont see any reason why its not crohn's. we differ crohn's and rta by urine anion gap. in chronic diarrhoea it is negative while in rta its +ve but in question the anion gap was normal +