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lfsuarez
Why would the second part of that be correct when there is not mention of a DNR?
+19
ug123
DNI and DNR are different right? This patient had a DNI. Why would we assume it to be DNR too?
+4
sherry
DNI and DNR are indeed different. But it is not the case here. The patient needs to be extubated means she did not sign a DNI or DNR in the first place. I assume her living will is more like terminate supporting treatment in a vegetative state. So there is no need to do resuscitation anyways. But I agree this is not a good question.
+2
shayan
"The patient has signed the living will and is consistent with her directives" but the stem doesnt tell has what is in her living will about the extubation? we are extubating on the request of her husband? this is confusing !
+7
criovoly
I believe this question was not well constructed... it's one of those!
+1
suckitnbme
@shayan extubating at request of the husband because he's following what's in her living will. Following that line of thought, the patient probably wanted withdrawal of care if in a vegetative state.
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luciana
I understood same as @shayan that she wanted to keep intubated... now reading it again I feel extra dumb with my poor reading interpretation skills
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coldturkey
@lfsuarez CPR(if the need arises) , for this patient (barb overdose and hospital setting), she will be intubated to get and maintain airway access. However ,she is against any mechanical ventilation as per her living will. Hence, we cannot perform CPR on her.
+2
furqanka
I too believe DNR and DNI are distinct but UW 1124 says - A DNR order indicates that a patient should not undergo CPR. this includes bls (mouth to mouth breathing, chest compression) as well as advanced cardiac life support (intubation, mechanical ventilation, defibrillation, and administering medications such as vasopressor or epinephrine). Additional wishes such as the desire to not be fed artificially or any other limitation of care can be specified.
+1
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madamestep
Exactly. A living will can say whatever the fuck you want it to...
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em_goldman
People who are suicidal still have decision-making capacity; it's not equivalent to advanced dementia or other situations where decision making is impaired. Laws vary by state; I know in my state that the maximum time for holding someone against their will is 48 hours unless a court has deemed them incompetent and designated another person as their legal decision maker, including people who are actively suicidal.
My understanding of the law as a layperson is that her living will was signed along with people bearing witness to the fact that she was the one who signed it, and it was what she wanted. Ethics aside, it would be almost impossible to prove that she legally initiated a DNR in a state of suicidality that was intense enough to interfere with her decision-making capacity in that moment.
+1
step1dreamteam
em_goldman there is an AMBOSS question with a suicidal pt. The correct answer was that suicidal pt do not have DMC-->living will of a suicidal pt should not be considered.
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submitted by โm-ice(370)
The patient shows no sign of cortical activity, but has some brainstem function intact, which implies she is in a form of persistent vegetative state. She has a living will that designates mechanical ventilation should be discontinued if that situation arises, so we must follow it and make not attempt to resuscitate.